Posts by Richard Oliver

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

I said many people on here and then qualified it by saying and it may not apply to you. I am giving a generalized statement because I don't know you, I have never met you and this is the impression I have gotten from many people on this site. Again I acknowledged that it was a generalized statement when I wrote it.

And again I agreed with you when the Chair did ask what happens in 5 years. The point that I contended your statement was that Watchtower forced this policy only because they wanted to trick the commission. I have also acknowledged it in previously, that there is a possibility if they become complacent that it could go backwards, but that is true with any organizations policies on any number of issues, it is not unique to Watchtower.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

this was opened by mistake.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

I have accepted that most people on here have had a bad experience with Watchtower at one point or another, and some feel that they are either evil or corrupt or both. Some people don't hide their bias either very well or at all, and that is a fact, not saying that is you. So I know that some people on here will don't trust a single word that comes out of Watchtower, and that is their right to feel that way, and so this would be no different. I am sure most people here have read the documents but either don't believe that it will be implemented at all or will be enforced for long.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

Those two statements are actually pretty easily reconcilable. One is a question to clarify how you feel. The other is a statement to show that I can see where you are coming from if you do say yes.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

And are you also in the habit of accusing someone or an organization before something even happens. I understand that you would be skeptical that they will change their policies and keep with those changes. But it could be said of any organization that is trying to do better or any person. Should the US Military be disbanded because they covered up sexual abuse of both men and women, or should they be given an opportunity to implement new policies and procedures to ensure that it doesn't continue to happen.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

I agree with you, in part. The chair did say that what happens in 5 years time. He did not indicate that these were cases that were just to try and fool the Commission, there is nothing in the record for that. And again, the policy for reporting a case based on the testimony of one

And again, the policy for reporting a case based on the testimony of one witness is a legal decision and for secular parts of their reporting policy. The GB has the right to keep in tact their policy that two witnesses is needed for congregational actions. So a matter will be submitted to authorities based on the single witness rule. That person's standing in the congregation would still be dependent on a two witness rule. So again two different things, one is reporting it to the police and the second is that of how the congregation sees it. Now if a person is either convicted of child abuse or if it is generally accepted in the community that he is a child abuser, then regardless if there are two witnesses or not and regardless if the person confesses or denies it, Branch restrictions will be imposed on that person. The restrictions would include limiting their ability to go out in service and handle even very trivial matters for decades.

I highly doubt that Watchtower will ignore this since it is their policy for one major reason and that is liability. I am going to step from Australia to California for this. In the Conti case, the only thing that the Appeals Court found that Watchtower did wrong was violating their own policy when Conti and Kendrick went in service.

From the Conti Case:

Allen Shuster, a Watchtower official in New York, testified that Watchtower policy allowed a known child molester to continue to perform field service, but not alone or with a child. Defense expert Monica Applewhite, whose testimony is discussed further below, said that Watchtower policies were implemented by letters sent “to all bodies of elders in the United States.” However, Shuster was unable to identify any church-wide writing that documented the limitations on field service by known child molesters. He said this policy was implemented by letters to elders on a case-by-case basis.2

...

Even if Watchtower had a policy of preventing known child molesters from performing field service alone or with children, there is no evidence that Watchtower did anything to implement that policy in Kendrick's case. Elder Abrahamson testified that Watchtower, not the Congregation, determined how matters such as the one involving Kendrick were handled. (Fn.1, supra.) Shuster said that such matters were addressed by Watchtower through letters of instruction to the elders of individual congregations, but no such letter was produced in this case. Insofar as it appears from the evidence, Watchtower placed no limits whatsoever on Kendrick's field service.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

I posted that letter again because it maybe possible that they choose not to read the letter to determine the current policy is.

It does not necessarily mean that up until that point that it was that policy, up until July 31, 2016. Because again there were 15 reports that were made at least in Australia, where some of them at least some were reported prior to August 1, 2016. That is the testimony that between the first ARC hearing and the one in March of 2017 that those are the 15 cases. So unless all 15 took place between August 1 and January 3, 2017 when it was written in written testiomy about those 15 cases being made, some of those cases had to have taken place prior to August 1, 2017. There could very well be cases where you are correct, but that is an opinion without evidence. Evidence is needed to make a legal claim against someone or an organization

Edit:Sorry let me make this more clear.

On January 3, 2017 Watchtower Australia submitted a document of written testimony prior to the ARC open hearing. In there they state that there were a number of cases reported since the last ARC hearing to indicate that they are taking the commission's recommendations seriously. The following is from the written testiomy given by Watchtower to the ARC for their March 11, 2017 Hearing:

8. Question 8: Please detail all allegations of child sexual abuse, including historical allegations, received by the Jehovah’s Witness organisation since the conclusion of the public hearing of Case Study 29. Details of each allegation should include the following (see the enclosed Microsoft Excel spreadsheet):

(a) Nature of the abuse

8.1 Since the conclusion of the public hearing of Case Study No. 29, the Australia branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses has had no reports of child sexual abuse during any congregation-sponsored activity. However, the branch office has received reports of familial and/or acquaintance child sexual abuse. A summary, as well as the details of each of these allegations, is provided to the Commission in the form requested.

8.2 Summary: Congregation elders reported to the branch office nine allegations of historical child sexual abuse alleged to have occurred before the public hearing on Case Study No. 29. Seven of these allegations have been reported to the authorities. The adult survivors in the other two cases (in Western Australia and Queensland, respectively) decided not to report the matter to the authorities. Since there was no legal obligation for the elders to report, the elders respected their privacy.

8.3 Additionally, congregation elders have reported to the branch office eight allegations of familial and/or acquaintance child sexual abuse alleged to have occurred since the conclusion of the public hearing on Case Study No. 29. All of these allegations were also reported to the authorities.

Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia

18

8.4 The details requested in Questions 8(b) through 8(j) below for the above 17 allegations are provided in the attached Microsoft Excel spreadsheet.

That is where the report of 15 allegations were reported to authorities. There could have been 17 but two of the surviors who are adults when it was reported to the Elders asked that a report not be made. And as the ARC themselves said if an adult survior chooses not to report it, those wishes should be respected.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

So again vidiot, have you actually read the policies or just accept what other people have heard or is it that you don't care what the policies actually says?

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

Because I am looking at the actual documents and they are not the same. And I defend them because I am looking at actual facts and not just hear what I want to hear on this.

6. To ensure that elders comply with child-abuse reporting laws, two elders should immedi-ately call the Legal Department for legal advice when the elders learn of an accusation of child abuse. (Rom. 13:1-4) A call should be made even when both persons involved are minors. The elders should not ask an alleged victim, the accused person, or anyone else to call the Legal Department on the el-ders’ behalf. The elders should call the Legal Department even in the following situations:

• The alleged abuse occurred many years ago.

• The alleged abuse is based on the testimony of only one witness.

• The alleged abuse is believed to be a repressed memory.

• The alleged abuse involved perpetrators or victims who are deceased.

• The alleged abuse is believed to have already been reported to the secular authorities.

• The alleged perpetrator or victim is not a member of your congregation.

• The alleged perpetrator is a non-Witness associating with the congregation.

• The alleged abuse occurred before the alleged perpetrator or victim was baptized.

• The alleged victim is now an adult.

• The alleged abuse occurred in the past, and it is unclear whether your congregation elders ever called the Legal Department for direction.

7. The Legal Department will provide legal advice based on the

Conversations between congregation members and congregation elders relating to Q

spiritual counselling or assistance are confidential. However, in cases of child abuse, the

elders will consult with the Australasia branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses and will

comply with any relevant secular reporting laws.- Romans 13:1.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

Whatshallicallmyself:

I don't want to put words in your mouth so please clarify what rate of disclosure you are referring to over the same period of time. Are you referring to the rate of the 1006 cases since the 1960's? or the rate of disclosure in the general population when someone is abused sexually either as an adult or a child?

Vidiot:

Have you read the current set of policies and compared it to the old set of policies? or are you just repeating what you heard? Where was that said that it is virtually the same as the previous set of policies?